Vornado Realty Trust (NYSE:VNO) Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Michael Franco: Yeah. Look, I think we’ve done a pretty good job of hedging over the last couple of years. We weren’t perfect, but I think we’ve done a good job. If you look at the fair value of our hedges right now, I think it’s roughly $300 million. So that tells you we’re quite a bit in the money, I guess, unfortunately. But it means we’ve done a good job of hedging. That being said, you can’t hedge away maturity risk, right? And so if loans roll until we figure out what the plan for those assets are it’s difficult to hedge, right? So if something’s floating and we convert it to fixed and therefore we don’t need to have rolled that hedge. But you’re exposed on what the interest rate is when you actually do roll it.

So the answer is we have some exposure on some expiring or maturing loans where the caps or swaps are lower rate than the in place SOFR rate. And then we’ve got a couple of loans where the swaps 555, for example, we put in place another swap on that asset that is at a higher level than the existing one. So we’ll have some leakage, we think in 2024 from those loans that are rolling over, and a couple of those swaps that are also expiring. But we will replace those. We will continue to hedge our portfolio, but given rates have moved up, when you move from one hedge to the next, there’ll be some leakage on three or four assets.

Camille Bonnel: Okay. Thank you, Michael. And for my last question, switching gears a bit. Can you talk to the sublease activity you’re seeing across the portfolio? How has it changed since a year ago and how does it compare by region? Thank you.

Glen Weiss: Hi, Camille its Glen. In the New York portfolio I’d say the color hasn’t changed much since last year in terms of the spaces that are on the market in our portfolio from a sublease basis. As a matter of fact, some of it has been fully leased or taken off the market. For example, TWC at 90 Park, all that space is now called for. So I would say nothing really new to highlight over the 12 month period. In Chicago I think there is more sublease space in the market generally, and at THE MART specifically. And in San Francisco, the only tenant to note is Microsoft has announced the sublease of their space in our 555. That lease has a very long term nature left to it, such general color. But I think if you look at those statistics in New York specifically, I think the numbers are generally on par with year ago.

Operator: Thank you. And our next question today comes from Michael Griffin with Citi. Please go ahead.

Michael Griffin: Great, thanks. Maybe just another question on leasing for Glen. Are you noticing office users taking longer in making decisions about whether or not the lease space and then if you could update us on kind of where TIs and free rents have been trending in the market? That would be great.

Glen Weiss: I think those concession TIs and free rents, that’s all stabilized. And as Michael said in his remarks, we’re even seeing rents go up in certain buildings like a 280 Park, 1290, or PENN 1. So the things stabilizes the answer around the concessions. So what was the other part of it, remember [ph]?

Steven Roth: Users taking longer in making decisions.

Glen Weiss: Longer, I think generally the processes are longer in terms of deal making from first toward assigning a lease definitely longer than historic for sure, yes.

Michael Griffin: That’s helpful. And then just on the dividend policy going forward in 2022, just given how it was handled in 2023. I’m curious if you can kind of update us on kind of any expectations for the go-forward year as it relates to the dividend?

Michael Franco: Your question, Grif, is about 2024, I think you said 2022, but I think you meant 2024?

Michael Griffin: Yes.