Chimera Investment Corporation (NYSE:CIM) Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Phillip Kardis: Stephen, thanks for the question. So right now, I think we’re happy with our liquidity position. But as we look for rates now being higher for longer, we think the shore up liquidity makes sense. If we think about our priorities, we look at liquidity right now first. We do think there are going to be investment opportunities in the near term that are going to come to us, and we would look to the extent that we have the liquidity to deploy then. And we look at stock repurchases, whether it’s common or preferred, under a variety of factors. But at least in the near term, that’s probably the third option for us. We’re looking more at liquidity and investment opportunities. And we think those are — and I’m going to turn over kind of where we’re seeing some of those opportunities to Dan.

Dan Thakkar: Sure. So this is Dan Thakkar. So in terms of the opportunities, we think the primary capital allocations will be between non-QM, especially in the DSCRs, BPLs and Jumbo Prime to the extent we are able to source that. We’re targeting mid-teens returns to those securitizations. I will point out that as far as the securitization economics is concerned, it’s pretty stable, especially in the non-QM space with the newly originated high gross WAC loans with coupons around 8.5%. That said, recent deals on the AAAs are pricing in the high 100s versus mid-hundreds in the third quarter. So any more underperformance there will deteriorate the ARB, so we are very cautious there. Obviously, the widening that we have seen on the non-QM AAA has widened in sympathy with the Agency RMBS. So it is kind of stable and compelling at this point, but it can deteriorate really quickly in the macro environment we are in. I hope that answers your question.

Stephen Laws: That’s helpful color. I appreciate the comments. And just wanted to verify one thing. I think you mentioned $16 million savings in interest expense from the refinance of a higher cost facility. A $0.06 to $0.07 benefit there annually? Is that right? Or is there an offset to that somewhere?

Phillip Kardis: I think yes. I mean that’s the number we expect to say, but as you’re probably aware, in the early part of next year, 2 of our preferreds are going to reset from fixed to float, at least we expect that’s what’s going to happen based on our current information of the applicability of the federal law to those particular things. And so I think as you think about this, we believe that this financing — refinancing has been very positive for us, but it really is going to be primarily offset by what we expect to happen to our preferred stock.

Operator: Our next questions come from the line of Trevor Cranston with JMP Securities.

Trevor Cranston: Can you talk about what you guys are seeing in the bulk loan market, particularly from the banking sector, and if you’re seeing a material increase in supply coming out from banks looking to get ahead of regulatory changes?

Phillip Kardis: Yes. I think right now, from that bulk, we’re not seeing that much. We got to wait for the term facility to end. And so it’s not been an area that we’ve been really focusing on right this — given the current situation.

Trevor Cranston: Okay. Got it. And then on the loan facility that you refinanced moving from the non-mark-to-market to a limited mark-to-market, can you elaborate a little bit on kind of what the change in the terms of that facility are in terms of protection for you guys? And also maybe comment on if you think there are further opportunities to refinance any of your other facilities into a sort of lower cost alternative at this point.