Ares Commercial Real Estate Corporation (NYSE:ACRE) Q3 2023 Earnings Call Transcript

Tae-Sik Yoon: Thank you for the question, Jade. Now that is an extremely important question. And obviously, we are monitoring our actual cash flow from operating activities very carefully. Jade, you probably are referring to our cash flow statement in our financials versus our dividend. Maybe I’ll just point out a few things that may help reconcile maybe some of the differences that you’re seeing. So if you look at third quarter 2023, for example, I think our net cash provided by operating activities is around $13.5 million. And we think in addition to that $13.5 million, you would add, for example, $1.5 million of fees that we have already received, for example, as origination fees upfront, but we don’t amortize it under the cash flow statement, obviously, because it’s cash flow.

But that is actual cash that we have already received as part of making a loan. And again, that adds about $1.5 million. So you’re up to about $15 million from there. And then the second thing just to — again, to point out is if you kind of look at our dividends for the third quarter, I think what you’ll see is in cash flow, again, you’ll see that dividends paid in the third quarter was really the dividends declared for the second quarter, which included the $0.02 supplemental, which obviously was not declared and payable for the third quarter dividend. So I think the difference that you might be seeing is a little bit smaller than maybe where you started out with. But we do think that our distributable earnings is a very good measure of our actual cash flow.

I think probably the biggest difference you’ll see between those two measures, again, taking into account some of the timing differences of when you pay payables, receive receivables, there’s probably some payment-in-kind loans. We think we have a fairly limited amount of that, but that would probably be the biggest difference between actual operating cash flow versus our distributable earnings.

Jade Rahmani: Okay. That’s a great answer. And so when the Board is thinking about the dividend, is it going to be based on the distributable earnings? And do they give any consideration to the cash flow from operations performance? And I do realize the accrual nature of the income statement, which also triggers REIT taxable earnings. So I appreciate your commentary around the origination piece.

Tae-Sik Yoon: Yeah. That’s a great question. Again, we present all this information to the Board. We discuss cash flow from operations, we discuss credit, we discuss outlook, we discuss balance sheet, we discuss liquidity. So there are a whole host of factors that are taken into account by the Board in setting and declaring dividend. One thing to just note about our PIK income is that for the quarter, I think it totaled around $2.2 million. And if you compare that against our total interest income for the quarter of around $53 million, it’s around 4%. So we do think that is a manageable number. But again, all of those considerations are, we believe, taken into account by the Board in setting the dividend.

Jade Rahmani: Okay. Thanks very much. If I could ask another one. It would just be the decision on loan sales at this point, specifically on office, Tae-Sik said something similar. So I’m just wondering if it’s related to liability management. Are your repo lenders or the CLO potential buydowns out of — buyouts out of CLO prompting those decisions or is it just your asset management and deciding to be proactive?

Bryan Donohoe: I think it starts from a fundamental perspective on kind of future values and certainly kind of out-earning any issues by redeploying that potential cash inbound with new investments going forward. But certainly, there’s an overlay of whatever liability structure that asset may have resided in. So Jade, it really comes down to a fundamental view of office valuations or that specific asset valuations alongside the specifics around the liability structure. So it really remains on a case-by-case basis.