With the change in the interest rate environment, there’s possibility. We look at more credit that has been of less interest to many clients and allocators as you might expect, given the low interest rates. And there’s more and more attention being paid to different types of credit strategy, whether that’s distressed or other capabilities even more so than what we were seeing in PE only a few years ago. So, there may be an opportunity there, but I can’t say I’m aggressively looking or trying to add that. We’ve got enough to try to build here as it is. Regionally, the institutional business isn’t something that I’m focused on. The reason we went to Milwaukee was because it was a great strategy. It was a great team and a great growth strategy.
It had nothing to do per se with the region. It’s nice to be in the Midwest. We work well with Midwesterners. It was a great cultural fit. But that’s just a circumstance of them being really excellent. They could have been in another city entirely. Geography is much more important for us when we think about the high net worth business. And I’m, as you know, always looking for opportunities to find the right partners in different regions of the country.
Sumeet Mody: Great. Thanks. And then maybe just one last one for Scott. On the G&A costs, I know you guys are run pretty much under — just under $6 million a quarter on average in 2021, maybe just over that in 2022 for 10% growth rate year-over-year. Is that a fair growth rate you’re assume for 2023? What are some of the impacts we should think about for G&A for this year?
Scott Gerard: Yeah. I think one of the noteworthy lines is related to travel and entertainment expense. That’s certainly going to — has started normalizing so that as you can imagine, because in the pandemic, that expense in 2021 even — well into 2022 was lower than historical levels. And other fees such as professional fees, some of the research services that we use, we’re in a inflationary environment as much as we, do our best to negotiate either nominal built-in increases in our agreements or more common now various services are hiking up their fees. And we try and do our best to negotiate that down to a reasonable level. But I would say that pretty much covers some of the — some of what you’ve seen in G&A and what I would expect to continue.
Sumeet Mody: Great. Thanks for taking my questions, guys.
Richard Hough: Sure.
Scott Gerard: Sure. Thank you.
Operator: The next question comes from Christopher Marinac with Janney Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead.
Christopher Marinac: Hey, good morning. Scott and Rick, can you talk about the EBITDA margin and kind of what’s realistic in this environment? I know there’s some noise and unique factors in Q4, but just thinking going forwards kind of how you see the business unfolding there.
Richard Hough: Yeah. Thanks Chris. I’ll start, but Scott may be able to fill in some detail. First of all, where we sit in the fourth quarter, and I think you may have noted this in your note this morning at what are we, 26% 27% EBITDA for the fourth quarter is actually right in line with historical EBITDA for the company, if you go prior to some of our recent growth spurts. So, we feel really good about that, considering the year. And compared to some peers, even looks quite good. As I said, a year ago 2021, when we were hitting 32%, 33% EBITDA, that was really kind of historically high. In part, that was driven by performance fees, which we saw in multiple years leading up to that. Obviously, last year was not a good year for performance fees.
