And we have done quite a few technical events in the past few months And this will be deployed and fine-tuned in the coming quarter, which will enable us to further grow our ad take rate. The second question regarding the C SeaMoney growth, if you look at the SeaMoney, the majority of business are in the credit business at this point in time. Of course, we also have digital banks and insurance, but still in the relatively growing stage. There are a few passes we’re looking at here. One is to further penetrate our Shopee ecosystem through our Shopee PayLater. The penetration of e-commerce platform has slight room to grow. We started in Indonesia first and other countries later. Even for our earliest market, we still see a potential to further penetrate the user base.
I think that’s the first one. The second one is, we also believe that outside of the Shopee ecosystem, there are many users that we can onboard to our digital finance platforms. This is still in a very early stage as we started much later than penetrating the Shopee ecosystem. But essentially, I think you can imagine that in a big country like Indonesia, where credit card penetrations are relatively small, single-digit stage. We are probably the first ones that are able to offer a credit service to the broader mass market. And of course, this helped by the Shopee’s penetration in the mass market. But there are still many other users out of the Shopee ecosystem in the mass market that we believe that we can target on. And of course, there are many channels to do that.
We have offline QIS payments. We have very product-based, theme-based consumption loans that we are working on, which is not uncommon in many other markets. So that’s another part of the equations in the credit businesses. The third equation in the credit businesses is to cross-sell other financial products to our ShopeePay Later user base. I think you asked about NPL as well. The great thing for our business is here is that giving the data we have from the e-commerce transactions and also over years, we build up the external data besides our Shopee system that we are able to credit rate user a lot more efficiently and effectively. And if the user onboarded to our ShopeePay Later platform, we have even better credit data based on the ShopeePay Later performance.
This will enable us to sell them many other credit products over time. For example, we mentioned earlier on the cash loans that we offer to the users, which unlock more use cases. Basically, the user can use the credit for many other use cases besides the Shopee scenarios and other products we’re rolling out over time. And I think as we grow, the scale will also enable us to lower down the cost of service as well, so that economics can be even better. As time goes, this will go to a positive cycle that we have a better cost of service, better risk management, so that we are able to target even broader segment in the market. So we can grow even further in the market. I think that’s probably how we look at the growth side of the story. On the MPL side, we’re seeing a relatively stable MPL, as Tony has shared in the opening over the time, of course, that’s – that’s based on the number one, the data we have, as I mentioned in the previous descriptions.
But also because I do believe that we have probably the best, if not one of the best credit modeling team in South Asia to utilize the data to be able to credit rate our users. On top of that, it’s also about how we measure this overall. We measure this in a very prudent way. We’re not rushing for growth, for the growth. We want to make sure that our financial services not only have a profitable business now, but have a profitable business in the very long term, even in the credit cycle situations. So, putting all these things together, we will probably see a pretty high, pretty good upside for our financial services. And 2024, we would like to further grow our user base and maintain our credit risk in the market. Thank you.
Operator: Your next question comes from a line of Sachin Salgaonkar from Bank of America. Your line is open.
Sachin Salgaonkar: Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. First question, if we could help get a bit more clarity on improving unit economics at live streaming. Can you give some color in terms of the difference between normal e-commerce and live streaming in terms of AOV, the margin perspective and also any thoughts on steady state EBITDA margin at live streaming? Second question, I also wanted to understand a bit more on Free Fire. i.e., is the expected launch of India baked in the expectation of a double-digit growth? And are there any specific markets which is driving your optimism in terms of overall growth? Thank you.
Forrest Li: In terms of unit economics for live stream, it has improved cyclically in the past few months. Of course, at this point in time, comparing to the non-live stream part, it has a lower economics simply because we just started and it takes some effort to invest for the growth. But we do believe in the long term, the live stream probability wouldn’t be too different, would be quite similar to what we see in the other part of the marketplace platform. In term of the AOV that you asked earlier, we started live stream with a low AOV compared to the marketplace. As time goes, it will start to convert and now in some market it’s very similar, some market even a little higher, some market a little lower. So it’s a bit mixed at this stage, but eventually in the big market it will converge as time goes. In the smaller market, it might have different variations, but I don’t think it’s significant for the purpose of discussion here.
Minju Song: And regarding Free Fire, so far the positive trends we have seen across various different markets for our global operations and currently no material development in India. We are still making changes to the Free Fire in here to best accommodate our users’ preference locally. And we’ll update the market when there’s more material development.
Operator: Your next question comes from a line of Jiong Shao from Barclays. Your line is open.
