But the real star of the show, the last several years and probably for the next couple of years, outside of what happens with mortgage or any other type of regulatory engagement with fees would be the wealth related items, which are the investment subsidiary, trust fees, and then also the fees that we enjoy from our card businesses.And while the card fees weren’t really very big, compared to first quarter over fourth quarter on a year-to-year basis, they do continue to perform very well and we’re continuing to add people on the treasury sales side to move the card related products and particularly our purchasing cards.So, I think the secret to get into the guidance of the 3% to 4% year-over-year will lie on how well we do in wealth, how well we do in card, and a continuing offset of the OD NSF decline in service charge buckets.
Is that what you were looking for?Brett Rabatin That was perfect. Great color. Thanks so much.John Hairston Yes. And just as an add, the other category which showed being quite attractive this quarter versus last. This is probably a little more of a normal quarter. In the fourth quarter, we called out the fact that we literally had zero BOLI items occurred then and very close to zero SBIC, which is, kind of unusual for a quarter where both of those were near zero. So, Q1 was a little bit more normal in terms of that type of activity.Brett Rabatin Great. Thank you.Operator Our next question comes from Casey Haire with Jefferies. Your line is open.Casey Haire Yes, thanks. Good afternoon, guys.John Hairston Hi there.Casey Haire Apologies if I missed this, another NIM question.
I heard you guys on the DDA settling in the high 30s, did you guys talk about what your NII forecast assumes for deposit beta versus the 19% here in the first quarter?Mike Achary Yes, Casey, this is Mike. No, we haven’t yet. So, thank you for that question. But in terms of our deposit betas and when I talk about deposit betas really talking about total deposits, total deposit beta. So, we’re at 19% cumulative for the cycle. And so, for the fourth quarter of this year, the assumption is that deposit beta on a cumulative basis will probably settle in at around 30% or 31%.Casey Haire Excellent. Okay, great. And then just a follow-up to the fee guide question. To hit the low end of fee guidance, you’re going to have to run by my math, it looks like 87 million in the remaining quarters, that’s obviously a pretty steep ramp.
I heard the color in terms of you got a number of line items that you expect to help you get there, but if you don’t – if you fall short of that, is there a flexibility on the expense guide or is that pretty hard and fast?Mike Achary I think when we think about these, again the guidance, which we haven’t changed is the up 3% to 4% and the bias there is probably towards the low-end of that range, so somewhere in the 3% range. As we think about how the trend is likely to play out to the balance of the year, recall that from a seasonality point of view, fees tend to build as we go through the calendar year. So, it’s not like a flat amount across the year, but we would expect fees to begin to build as we go through the year beginning in the second quarter.
So, the high point would be the fourth quarter.Casey Haire Got you. You see my point though, right? Like it’s a decent ramp, right?Mike Achary Yes, it is.Casey Haire Okay. All right. And just last one for me. On the office book, obviously everyone’s biggest concern. I know it’s a small piece of the pie for you guys. Have you guys – do you guys have any color on the LTV debt service coverage ratio and then percentage Class A versus B and C?John Hairston Yes. Thanks for the question Casey. A lot of our – first-of-all, on the LTV, I mean, we surveil all of our commercial real estate and even C&I book on a regular basis. So, with the additional focus on office and investment commercial real estate in general, we’ve certainly paid closer attention to staying close to those customers.
And from an LTV perspective, our average – weighted average LTV is in the low 60s at this point in time.So, really healthy LTVs and even with the upward movement, in cap rates, we feel that it can be easily absorbed and still stay within a reasonable bound. And then occupancy levels at a lot of our – on average are pretty high. We’re running in the low 90% occupancy level at this point in time. So, pretty strong for that asset class in general. And debt service coverage in general still is pretty strong. Kind of in the [1.3 to 1.6] [ph] range depending on the location. In most of ours, we mentioned in the earnings deck on Page 10, we really don’t do a lot of high rise stuff. We have about 4% of the book. In high rise, it’s really literally a handful of transactions, nothing of any significance.
And I looked into those recently and don’t feel particularly concerned about them at all. And so the rest of the book is mid-to-low rise stuff in suburban locations where working and return to office and all of that tends to be a little bit more buoyant.Casey Haire Great. Thanks for all the color.John Hairston You bet. You’re welcome.Operator Our next question comes from Brad Milsaps with Piper Sandler. Your line is open.Brad Milsaps Hey, good afternoon.John Hairston Hey, Brad.Brad Milsaps Mike, just wanted to follow-up on Casey’s expense question. Obviously, the PPNR guide came down, which is understandable, but maybe I was a little surprised, the expense guidance maybe didn’t change a little bit too, given the pressure on revenue. Is it just fair to assume there’s just not a lot of flexibility or variability within the expense base, most all of that is locked in and not necessarily revenue dependent based on, kind of how you gave the guidance?Mike Achary I think certainly there is some flexibility that when we think about expenses in the guide, again that’s 6% to 7% and the bias is probably toward the upper end of that range a little bit.
But the other thing about the first quarter expense growth is, if we back out things like pension and FDIC, the increase was really more in the neighborhood of 2.5%, 2.6%. So, really again using the first quarter numbers, kind of a run rate going forward, you know we see expenses up just a little bit, probably modestly in the second quarter. And then, kind of flattish as we go through the back-end of the year. So, that’s how we’re kind of thinking about expenses.John Hairston Brad, this is John. I’ll add to that. The levers that could be pulled in terms of reducing our reinvestment pace. We really don’t see this current “crisis” as an industry crisis as much as a couple of banks were in crisis and there’s a lot of reaction to that which is understandable.
And that’s driving leverage up and therefore some pressure on NII that shouldn’t continue more than however long it takes for people to get a little bit more confident in the industry. But we really haven’t slowed and don’t plan to slow our reinvestment both in tech, our reinvestment in adding bankers, particularly bankers that are focused on liquidity and smaller, more forward relationships. And then in treasury sales. And so, we could pull the lever to decrease that reinvestment, but I think we’d be focused more on the next several quarters and not the next several years. And we think it’s more important to our investors to continue building PPNR in the long-term versus take a short-term benefit. So, that’s really the logic behind the reinvestment thesis.
